Cross Roads Podcast
Cross Roads Podcast
Money Moves - Strategies to Tackle Debt and Stay Debt-Free
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Drowning in debt? You're not alone. This eye-opening conversation with financial expert John Ezell cuts through the confusion to reveal why so many of us struggle with debt—and exactly how to break free.
The shocking truth? Most people have no idea where their money actually goes. One friend of John's discovered he was spending $2,200 monthly just on fast food lunches with his son. Another listener's mother spent hundreds monthly on cigarettes while claiming she had no money. These spending blind spots keep us trapped in financial stress, but there's a way out.
We dive deep into practical strategies that work in real life, not just theory. Learn the critical first step of tracking every dollar for 30 days (without judgment), then discover how to create a budget that feels liberating rather than restrictive. As John perfectly puts it: "A budget isn't about restriction; it's about direction. You're telling your money where to go instead of wondering where it went."
The episode breaks down two powerful debt elimination methods—the emotionally satisfying "debt snowball" versus the mathematically optimal "debt avalanche"—while explaining why psychology often matters more than pure numbers when conquering debt. We also explore creative ways to build an emergency fund (like the acquaintance who delivered pizzas part-time and eliminated all debt in three years), and why learning to delay gratification transforms your financial future.
Whether you're drowning in debt or simply want to optimize your financial life, this conversation delivers actionable wisdom without judgment or complicated jargon. By the end, you'll understand exactly what's been draining your wallet and have a clear roadmap to financial freedom. Ready to take control of your money? This is your starting point.
Order your copy today of "Achieve Optimal Brain Health with Nutrition," by Stefan Mcdermott.
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Would you like Santa Claus and Mrs. Claus to come to your home, or office? Contact The Santa Steven at Steven@theSantaSteven.com or call 469-230-5956 for more information.
Cross Roads Podcast welcomes you to Money Moves for those who want to be in the know. Good morning Cross Roads. Welcome back to Money Moves everyone. I'm your host, Steven Killfoil, and today we've got a topic that hits close to home for a lot of folks, Debt. Yep, that four-letter word that somehow feels longer than it should. But don't worry, because joining me is someone who knows a thing or two about money smarts. My guest today John Ezell. John, how's it going?
John Ezell:Hey, Steve, it's going great, thank you, and I'm ready to talk about everyone's favorite hobby, owing money.
Steven Killfoil:Yeah, because nothing says fun like that monthly statement reminding you that you're still paying for that pizza you ordered in 2017.
John Ezell:Right, Exactly, and hey, we're here to help some people today to break that cycle, and I'm looking forward to it.
Steven Killfoil:Absolutely Well. So let's dive in First things first. If you're trying to get out of debt, you've got to figure out where your money's going right.
John Ezell:That's right. In fact, most people think they know where their money's actually going, but they don't track it. And when they do begin to track it, they're shocked at how it goes out the window, so to speak, with regard to the speed, because they're just not paying attention. For example, to find out that you four hundred dollars a month at the coffee shop okay, well, that's your prerogative, but if you've got any debt, maybe you ought to be focused on a combination of the two some coffee and some debt, right?
Steven Killfoil:Exactly you were telling me about a partner business that you were helping the they. They found out they were spending an exorbitant amount on eating lunch.
John Ezell:Yeah, tell them about that so this was a personal friend of mine. Uh, he had a successful landscaping business, he and his son, and he had some other workers too. But it turned out that once they started tracking their expenses, what they found was that for lunch, only for a month, they would spend between Chick-fil-A or McDonald's $2,200 for two people.
Steven Killfoil:And that's not hard to do if you're not paying attention and you just land the plastic down and keep on going.
John Ezell:And that's what they were doing. Once they found that out, it shocked them, got their attention and, at a minimum, they started bringing a sandwich periodically, you know so that's a good idea.
John Ezell:They took that savings let's call it two thousand. They still had some spending when they were out, but they tried to get on top of this. They took that two thousand dollars and started accelerating all their debts. Yeah, and it's some. It's miraculous. It doesn't have to be $2,000. It can be whatever the figure works for you, but anything is better than making those minimum payments.
Steven Killfoil:Oh yeah, my mother, God rest her soul. She used to fight and fight and fight with me. She said I just don't have any money, I have no money. I said, Mom, you have money, you just don't want to stop smoking.
John Ezell:That was a retirement account for her right
Steven Killfoil:Right.
Steven Killfoil:And when I finally, I just sat down and I put it in black and white and put it before her and you know she, she gave me the argument well, I've been smoking since I was 16. I'm not going to quit. And then I said well then, don't complain about not having money,
John Ezell:right, yeah,
Steven Killfoil:cause I was crazy. She sent me to the store one time I was visiting her for a carton of cigarettes and a bottle of gin. The ticket for a carton of cigarettes and a bottle of gin, I mean, this is like a the liter bottle
John Ezell:sure
Steven Killfoil:two hundred dollars
John Ezell:it must have been some good gin
Steven Killfoil:well, no, it was the cigarettes.
Steven Killfoil:Yeah, I couldn't believe it
John Ezell:For the carton yeah
Steven Killfoil:Yeah, I said wow, man. I mean it's 10 bucks a pack. There's, you know, 20 packs, 10 packs in a carton.
John Ezell:Yeah, wow, wow, wow, wow.
Steven Killfoil:I'm glad I quit smoking, I'd be broke
John Ezell:For sure, for sure, between that eating out and going to the equivalent of Starbucks so often that they know your dog's name
Steven Killfoil:yeah, no kidding
John Ezell:and your favorite drink right,
Steven Killfoil:of course, of course
John Ezell:step-by-step standpoint. So the first step is really to track every dollar that you're spending for at least 30 days. In the old days, when we got a receipt for everything, I would tell people put it in a plastic bag, put it in a lunch bag, whatever, and at the end of the month get them all out, add them all up. You know you don't have to do it that way. We do things online. Most of us today. Go ahead and get a notebook and start writing these things down. You could use an app it doesn't have to be a notebook.
John Ezell:It doesn't really matter, just know where the money is going, and this is a judgment-free zone. That first month You're just writing it all down.
John Ezell:So you can get your arms around it
Steven Killfoil:Absolutely, because it's very important to know where you're at, and that's the trick with debt Most people assume that they know where they're at and they don't.
John Ezell:I see it all the time where people will come in, we'll be visiting, we'll talk about what their gross income is per month and I'll just pick a number and say $10,000. Okay, and that might be two people working, it might be one person working outside the home, and so on. But then I will say, okay, what are your expenses? And they might say $6,000 a month. So then I say, okay, so does that mean you're saving $4,000 a month? And they're like, no, we're not saving $4,000 a month. What they haven't understood prior to that is that their lifestyle is chewing up all of that incremental bit and by making a small change or two in that particular scenario, $4,000 can become three pretty easy, and they're saving $1,000 a month, much less getting more serious about it.
Steven Killfoil:Absolutely. I mean, wow, you know. So, after you know where you're going, the next step is creating a budget. And let's be real. People hear the word budget and think, oh, that's like a diet for my wallet, or worse, that is complicated, don't? You have to be an accountant.
John Ezell:You know it really is, but just like a diet, once you get used to it, and I like that metaphor, or is it an analogy? But anyway I like the idea, because what happens is, once you get used to it, you feel better. Now, that's true with the diet, with diets feel better.
Steven Killfoil:Now, that's true with the diet, with diets, yeah, and it's true.
John Ezell:With the budget, you feel better and you know the thing about it is a budget isn't about restriction, it's about direction. You're telling your money where to go instead of wondering where it went. Yeah, and you know, you don't have to be an accountant to create an effective budget. True.
Steven Killfoil:True, so that's a tweet right there. You know, by the way, if you're feeling intimidated by where in the world do I start for creating a budget? You know what folks do I start for creating a budget. You know what folks Email me at crossroadspodcast2023, at gmailcom, and I will personally be happy to send you a copy of the Excel workbook we created when we were in Dave Ramsey's Financial Peace University. It's that easy and I've got it and I'll be happy to share it with you. I'll just blank it out and you put your information in. It's super simple. All right, John, this is where people kind of lean in the strategies. So how do we exactly start eliminating debt?
John Ezell:Well, there's two popular methods. The terms are similar, but they, of course, are different. One is a debt snowball. Now, this is where you list your debts, from the smallest debt to the largest debt, and you begin by paying off the smallest one as fast as possible and then, from there, you take the debt that you just eliminated and the payment associated with it and you send it ahead now to the next smallest debt. So imagine just like the snowball rolling downhill.
John Ezell:In this case, you're gaining momentum, and that is the way a debt snowball works. Now there's also something called a debt avalanche, and a debt avalanche would be where you focus on the debt that has the highest interest rate first and you begin to knock that out Now. Mathematically, that's a smarter move. However, debt and paying off debt is more of an emotional thought process. So, even though, logically, the math says debt avalanche for most people, they need to do this debt snowball, because what happens is just like the snowball is rolling downhill and getting bigger in terms of momentum, the debt is going down at the same time.
Steven Killfoil:Exactly, and that's how we did it at Financial Peace University, and we personally knocked out over $75,000 worth of debt, and we did it in the course of three months.
John Ezell:Wow, what an accomplishment. I mean you should be the, you should be the poster boy and girl for uh for debt reduction.
Steven Killfoil:It really, really works. And, oh my goodness, each time we hit a new plateau and when a neck, the next step, and there's like 10 stages in in financial peace university, it was like the burden just got lifted off our shoulders and we felt good yeah we felt really good yes absolutely, yeah, yep, that, that's definitely, definitely it.
Steven Killfoil:Yeah, financial peace university if you really are serious about getting yourself out of debt, there's churches all around here that put on that program. Just look them up. Just look up Financial Peace University and look where the next class is and then enjoy it and get successful and get out of debt. That's all I'm going to say on that. So back to you, john.
John Ezell:Well, I would just say in summary between the debt snowball and the debt avalanche, you pick. It doesn't matter which one you pick, but pick something and pick the one that is going to keep you the most motivated. The goal is progress, not perfection. Now, we've all heard that, but just to reiterate, it takes just as long to build a good habit as it does a bad habit. So why not put your efforts in solving something that will change the financial trajectory of your life by getting your debt under control?
Steven Killfoil:Absolutely so. Basically, snowball is more emotional and the avalanche is more logical.
John Ezell:That's correct.
Steven Killfoil:Well, I remember how we felt, like I told you, when we started Financial Peace University. I remember how we felt, like I told you when we started Financial Peace University, and each time we managed to hit that new goal, a new step, it felt great. The best one, however, was when the only debt we had left was our mortgage, and that one will be knocked out in. Well, now it's going to be seven or six more years. Seven more years, yeah, so you've climbed out of the hole. So how do you keep from falling back in?
John Ezell:That is such a good question, Steve. So two big things. Number one before you're accelerating this debt, you've got to build what is commonly thought of as an emergency fund. Now, in a previous program I think we talked about that a little bit, but that's step one. And you've got to stop using credit like it's monopoly money.
John Ezell:You know one of the things that happens if you've ever been to Las Vegas and I've been twice as a guest of some friends as soon as you walk in, you exchange the cash in your pocket for something that isn't cash. And that's all by design, because then when you're putting a bet down in the game, it's not $100 bills looking at you, it's these colored chips and just like a credit card operates in the same way. You don't feel the pain immediately. You're only going to feel it when the bill comes, and now you've already spent that money. So I don't think that using credit is going to make sense for people who are really focused on getting out of debt. Start with the emergency fund, and one of the examples for that would be to have a garage sale. Yeah, Most people can raise several hundred dollars to a thousand plus dollars just by selling stuff you don't need or want or forgot about to other people who find it valuable that's why they say one man's junk is another man's treasure that's it exactly very very true is another man's treasure.
Steven Killfoil:That's it exactly. Very, very true. Yes, and you know, I I look around sometimes and I see, uh, some of my neighbors garages. They're sitting out in their driveway or their cars out in the street and you look in the garage, it's just stacked with boxes and it's like I asked myself why when, when I moved into this house, we literally eliminated, uh, I don't even know what percentage of it, I'd say at least 35 percent of the stuff that we had we got rid of it because it's like one I'm not going to drag it with me, because if I haven't used it my mother used to teach me this If you haven't touched something in six months to a year, get rid of it. All it's doing is collecting dust, taking up space, and you could sell it or donate it, but get rid of it because it's not doing you any good.
Steven Killfoil:It or donate it, yep, but get rid of it because it's not doing you any good. Yeah, and I started applying that rule, and now I've accumulated more stuff and it's about time we do that again, again little house cleaning, spring cleaning?
Steven Killfoil:for a reason? Yeah, absolutely definitely, definitely. Okay. So the emergency fund and no credit cards. You know Dave Ramsey is also adamantly against the use of credit cards, and there's a very good reason for that. There's only 1% of the population that actually knows how to use what they call the other people's money right properly. My grandfather drilled this into my head. He said if you're going to use these things, never allow it to carry a balance beyond 25 days. If you cannot afford to do that, then don't use the card. Save your money until you get the money, then buy it yeah, he was wise to instill that in you and you know it is.
Steven Killfoil:That's just what the common sense is, but you know that that's what it is. But now, okay, don't use credit cards. But what about that new play station that comes out? Oh, oh no. What about christmas? And and all my family?
John Ezell:you know this is going to be simpler, more simply dealt with than you can imagine. Uh, when does Christmas come? What's the date?
Steven Killfoil:the date December 25th
John Ezell:okay and how about for 2027? Will it be the same date?
Steven Killfoil:same date okay.
John Ezell:So what I'm saying is we know when Christmas is coming, right.
Steven Killfoil:Absolutely.
John Ezell:So we don't need to wait until a month or two before we could actually begin December 26th, saving for Christmas. But back to your point. What if that PlayStation rolls up or you're trying to do this or that or the other? Hey, a little delayed gratification is going to be good for the soul and for your pocketbook. So save the money then go get it.
Steven Killfoil:Absolutely and.
John Ezell:I'll tell you something you find out Once you've saved the money and you've done this sequentially in life for a while. It's amazing. Now you have the money to go do any of these sorts of things you want. Ironically, you don't do them, though, very often because you like what's in that bank account, and so it becomes a mind over matter game. All you're trying to do is switch the momentum from having to have something right now to being able to have everything you want at a later date absolutely.
Steven Killfoil:And I mean, let's face it. Um, when my mom and dad went christmas shopping, they'd do it. They would start first. Then you'd have those sales right after christmas layaway programs uh penny sears, uh montgomery wards, they all had them. So my folks would put stuff in on layaway way ahead of time. By the time christmas rolled around they were getting it out of layaway. It was paid for with cash right they never had a credit card.
John Ezell:I wish people thought about that when they did things like you know, the in-store financing, or one year zero percent interest and again, if you've got the ability to use other people's money properly, which is a very small percentage of the population as you said yeah. So if you're that one out of 100, all right, I think I'd ask your spouse if you're married, or your significant other or a good friend.
Steven Killfoil:Always ask your spouse.
John Ezell:If you are that 1%, because your perspective or your perception of your ability to use discipline might be different than what family and friends think.
Steven Killfoil:Absolutely.
John Ezell:So what you don't want to do is you don't want to end up doing a payment plan where, instead of paying $500 for a console, you pay $800. And you certainly don't want to run into the debt for the Christmas presents, as we said. And you certainly don't want to run into the debt for the Christmas presents, as we said. And it was wise for you to just share that. You learned from your parents about the value of a layaway plan and that's something that had been around for a long time. So I know that increments of money, even if it's a small amount over short periods of time, can accumulate, but just like the flip side of that, small increments of debt being accumulated can, in a short period of time, overrun you. So be careful.
Steven Killfoil:Yeah, touche, touche, you got that right, touche, you got that right. So back to that emergency fund. How does one, you know, start? You mentioned the you know the garage sale, and that's fine. But what if you don't have a garage sale? How can a person actually start an emergency fund?
John Ezell:Well, another acquaintance of mine. What he did was he started are you ready? As a pizza delivery driver. This was a part-time job. This was a grown man. He had a full-time job but he was serious about getting out of debt and because he lived in an apartment, he didn't have a garage, which means, like most people in Texas, he didn't accumulate a garage full of stuff and he did not and was not able to have a garage sale. So he took 15 hours a week outside of his regular job to do pizza delivery and he started accumulating money that way. He just decided he was going to save all of that and in three years he was done with all of his debt just from the tips and whatever small payment they make as a pizza delivery guy. So all he did was get a job.
John Ezell:he traded some of his time for some money and if you know, most of us either have more time or more money, but it's uncommon that we have as much time as we want as much money as we want.
Steven Killfoil:All that will be it if you work at wgreens, according to them in a perfect world, it happens. Right, right, oh wow, is there any other thing you have to add to this?
John Ezell:Well, I think the biggest picture, the biggest point that you can think about, as it relates to this concept that we talked about today, which is a budget.
John Ezell:Now, a budget, specifically, is based on exact dollars of money coming in and money going out. All right, and that's a great place to start, but eventually you want to live your life in such a way and I learned this from our pastor years and years and years ago is to live off of margins. So maybe, instead of oh, we're going to spend $350 a week on groceries, maybe it needs to be a percentage of what your revenue is, just like it would be if you bought a house. The mortgage companies look at what percentage of your income is going to go to service that debt. So if they're looking at it and why are they looking at it? Because they don't want to set you up for failure they're only going to give you the amount that they feel was within that range. Maybe it's up to 33%, but I would just encourage people get in a position where 20% or less of your income is going to your housing and eventually you can get that down to a real small percentage, but maybe that's the first goal absolutely.
Steven Killfoil:Wow. This has been great advice. Um, you know, if you want a structured system, check out dave ramsey's financial peace university. A lot of people have turned their financial lives around with it. If you want to get started right away, email us at crossroadspodcast2023 at gmailcom and I will personally put you in touch with John right away. How's that sound? Or, if you want, can they call you?
John Ezell:They can absolutely call. I'm going to give you a phone number and I'll give you an email address as well, if that's all right.
Speaker 3:Sure.
John Ezell:So the phone number would be 214-929-0961. Now, there's a pretty good chance I won't actually be able to pick up the call in that moment, often because I'm in a meeting or another line. However, if you'd be kind enough to leave a message, or you could text to that as well, I'll do my best to get back to you within 24 hours. So that's the phone number. The email address would be John with an H, that's J-O-H-N at, and then I'll give you a few letters. That's J-O-H-N at, and then I'll give you a few letters C for Charlie, p for Papa, r for Romeo, w for Whiskey, m for Mike com. So that's John@cprwm. C-P-R-W-Mcom. Perfect.
Steven Killfoil:Well, that's all the time we've got for today, John. Thanks for joining me and helping us laugh a little while tackling a very serious subject.
John Ezell:You know what? It's my pleasure, Steve and I'm always happy to talk money and keep that pizza budget in check.
Steven Killfoil:Definitely, but you still got to have a pie once in a while. Yeah Amen, all right, friends, remember, debt doesn't have to control your life. Take control, make a plan and stick with it. And now for a few announcements. And now for a commercial announcement from our man from the north pole, the s Santa Steven. He's coming soon.
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Steven Killfoil:Call 469-230-5956 or email steven@ thesantasteven. com. That's S-T-E-V-E-N@ thesantasteven. com, and we hope you have a very wonderful holiday season. Remember, Christmas is just 87 days away. So if you want the Santa Steven to visit your home, call 469-230-5956 or email steven@ thesantasteven. com. And that's Steven with a V. Money moves. For those who want to be in the know, who's your daddy. You, thank you. You also don't forget to go on amazon and check out Stefan McDermott's book Achieve Optimal Brain Health with Nutrition. It's a really good book, easy to follow and it's written so anybody can follow it. It's real simple, but it is really good and it'll help your brain. If you're especially trying to get out of debt, your brain's going to need all the help it wants, right? That's right, okay? Well, until next week, I'm Stephen Kilfoyle, and thanks for tuning in to Money Moves and I will see you at the top.
